Welcome back! I'm very excited to get into Desire in Any Language, by Anastasia Vitsky so let's begin.
This passage is one that particularly struck me. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it as well. If you want to go back and read the section around it, it's at about 25% on Kindle and right before the chapter called Desire Frozen.
I am left to wonder if this feeling of mine is wanting the unattainable. I want to feel...I want to experience...I want to actually be hurt by someone I love. That sounds so mental. I don't mean romantic love or sexual love, but the "agape" pure love that knows neither gender nor race. Love itself. After being touched and leered at from a young age, I've learned to distrust physical contact. Never mind romance.
And yet the human body needs touch, needs intimacy...and a part of me longs for intimacy in this way. Not lust. Love. I want to feel someone's hand on my bottom, the striking sharp blows of flesh against flesh, straining against something bigger than me. Implacable and restraining and loving, holding me while making me cry. Someone who will let me fight against and draw away and protest, let me fight until the bad feelings are all washed away by pain and tears and the lovely warm throbbing afterward. Kisses and cuddles and stroking me as I cry with abandon. I am left to wonder if I want too much.
My questions:
What's your reaction to this passage? Are there are any parts that particularly stand out to you?
Can spanking be non-sexual and non-lustful? When you are reading a spanking novel and you get to a part where you know a spanking is about to happen, is it titillating?
Or can there be a distinction between the feeling of the spankee (Mira, in this case) and those who are reading about it?
Any other thoughts on the first part of the book? I'm just throwing this excerpt out there because it stuck with me, but are there others you'd like to mention?
Remember, we'll be talking about this book for two more weeks, so we'll be sure to get to all your questions and thoughts.
And---March's selection To Love A Woman by Jade Cary will be FREE during Love Spanks which starts tomorrow (February 9) so if you haven't gotten your copy yet, be sure to take advantage of this generous offer from Lazy Day Publishing.
I won't say too much yet because I want others to get a chance, but "Wanting the Unattainable" was the original title for this story. I changed it because it was too abstract, but part of the idea remained. Instead of wanting the unattainable, it became "desire", which in some (not all) ways is the same thing.
ReplyDeleteI much prefer "desire".
Delete:)
I think Desire was the perfect title, Ana. Mira has a desire to experience the language and culture, to experience the language of discipline, and to experience the lanuage of love. We get to witness the beginnings of Mira's experiences with each of those.
DeleteJulie
I'm glad you like the title. :) I also like it because the first title ended up not being true for Mira...and I am glad for that!
DeleteThere is beauty and simplicity in the passage cited.
ReplyDeleteI see sexual aspects and disciplinary aspects to spanking. Until I read Desire in Any Language, I could not see the longing for a spanking that is neither. In this passage, I can grasp that meaning.
As Renee says, there certainly is some overlap. But the intimacy of a spanking, especially one that isn't just foreplay or punishment, is something that I'm not sure can be replicated any other way. It is an amazing moment of connection. I wish we had more discussion and portrayals of all the different ways that spanking can affect people.
DeleteI love that passage.
ReplyDeleteSpanking is an act of extreme intimacy, and can, as Mira desires, be a beautiful act of love.
The underlying desire to be spanked is generated from a place in the brain related to sexuality. So is pyromania, which has nothing to do with sex at all. So trying to tease out the differences between sexual and non-sexual desires for spanking seems moot. Even the desire for disciplinary spanking with no eroticism whatsoever is still that same sexual urge.
Well. Spanking is causing a fire of a certain kind. ;)
DeleteAnd you had a post a while back that I disagreed with..the one where you said it is the sexual connection that makes punishment effective. I don't think so. "Sex" and "intimacy" are similar but not the same, and while for many it's the sex that makes the spanking desirable, for others it can be the intimacy.
It is interesting to consider all the different aspects of spanking and spankers and spankees are probably all looking for different things at different times as well.
ReplyDeleteThe longing in this passage is described so beautifully and I think that's what drew me to it.
There are as many types of needs are there are people. I'd love to see more stories told that acknowledge this.
DeleteWhoa, after reading those questions, I'm glad I got here early. Thanks Ana for the special reminder ;)
ReplyDeleteI love this passage. It makes me go soft and tender and I love being made to feel that way or being reminded to feel that way. It's honest and real and I think as writers, we are blessed to have this outlet to express those sort of feelings. Those words wouldn't happen in conversation, at least not for me. Those are words that you write when you let yourself go and just work from somewhere deep inside of you and then you sit back and read and think 'I wrote that?'
Can spanking be non-sexual? I suppose so and some are more sexually arousing or sexually geared than others. It is definitely titillating to know it's coming up or to be a part of it (even as the reader). Just a note, I don't believe in spanking children, I think this is something reserved for adults.
Distinction between reader and spankee? Yes, for sure. I feel like the voyeur.
I can't remember whether I've taken out the trash, but I can remember to send your invitation. :)
DeleteI know I'm repeating myself, but I'm still surprised that this speaks to so many people. But I received so much negative feedback about this story that I was surprised that anyone liked it, frankly. I'm really grateful that readers like you are willing to go out on a limb and read something that goes beyond the romance spanking formula. :)
Like Mira, I also wonder if she wants too much. She wants Agape Love without anything physical, and yet combined with something physical.
ReplyDeleteIsn't that like wishing for snow on a hot sunny day?
Questions that pop in my mind are: "Does Agape Love exist?".
Does it even have a reason or a right to exist?
If Agape Love does not exist, then is it really unattainable?
Or can we create it, just by wanting it, as Mira seems to be trying to do.
Oh Bas, what a surprise! I had no idea you'd be commenting. I am surprised also that your comment is not, "Naughty Mira needs a good spanking for neglecting schoolwork".
DeleteThe agape that Mira wants *is* physical, but it's not necessarily sexual. I think there is a difference.
And you were one to point out to me the agape in the first place.
First off, I learned a lot by reading this particular passage, because before this I really didn't understand what Mira was looking for. She obviously felt something for the tutor because she got very upset when the tutor got married, but I didn't get the impression Mira was upset because she wanted to have an intimate (intimate, meaning sexual) relationship. The idea of agape love is somewhat new to me, but I get it. The idea of spanking (in this case) takes on many forms depending on the relationship one has with the spanker, as an example. Between two people involved in a sexual and/or romantic relationship, sex plays a big role. There's more than spanking, in other words. But what about the spanking relationship one has with a hired disciplinarian? Is that sexual, too? I think it can be, and more often than not, is (I don't mean they HAVE sex, but sexual feelings are aroused).
ReplyDeleteTo respond to Bas (hi, dear! xoxox), I think agape love does exist, and it is attainable. I think there was some merit to keeping the spanking scenes in the book fairly benign. In understanding what Mira wants out of this relationship with the tutor, I think the reader getting aroused by the scene takes them off point entirely. That Ana chose to write it this was was brilliant.
*Mira* didn't know what she was looking for, either. To be honest, when I was writing the scene where Mira reacts badly to the marriage I wasn't exactly sure myself. It felt important, but I couldn't articulate why. It actually wasn't until after I'd finished the whole story that I realized what the scene accomplished.
DeleteOne person told me that the spanking scenes being unobtrusive helped her to more clearly imagine herself as Mira. I hadn't thought of it that way, but it was a lovely point.
I have to say that, once again, I was a little nervous about the concept of F/F. As a heterosexual woman in a male-led HOH relationship, I have not been subjected to the idea of any other kind of love. I have always understood familial female love (sister, mother, Aunt...). I also understand the love of a spouse, and the love of a child or children, especially those that come from your womb. But I had never considered the possibility of a f/f (non blood relative) relationship without a sexual attachment. I blame my own ignorance, and the plethora of pornography that states that the only way a woman can love another woman is sexually. I am sorry. But what I have read so far has opened my eyes to a new concept. I love the idea of agape love. I empathize with Mira's longings of touch, intimacy - pure love. This is actually a very realistic story. I had always had problems finding the right partner for loving relationships. Because what I wanted was unconditional love and intimacy- without the necessity of sex. I can honestly take or leave it. But I need touch, affirming words, and pure love. (It is very difficult, by the way, to get that point across to a twenty-something man. ) Fantastic job with this story, Ana. I am looking forward to the rest of it, and savoring it. :)
ReplyDeleteYou make a good point, and I'm not sure that the bulk of F/F spanking stories help to disprove what you are saying.
DeleteI mentioned this last fall, and I'll say it again. We have a multitude of stories in classic and modern literature about platonic friendship between men. Yet except for Beaches, there is almost no story of platonic, long-lasting friendship between women. I think that's one reason the story struck such a chord with so many people.
To find a sexual partner is quite easy, usually. To find someone who can share intimacy is not at all.
I am so glad you are enjoying it. :)
The passage touches on exactly what speaks to me in a spanking story - that emotional longing for the emotional connection and intimacy that can accompany spanking, and the satisfaction of a need that isn't sexual and isn't, really, a desire for the pain of dicscipline.
ReplyDelete"Kisses and cuddles and stroking me as I cry with abandon" is such a beautiful description of that longing.
Julie
The pain of discipline is a deep-seated need and one that Mira needs (rather than desires), but there is a need for that connection separate from both discipline and punishment.
DeleteI am so glad that it spoke to you.
What touched me in this passage was the intimacy Mira was describing and the word 'agape'. I think the idea of pure love sans sex is difficult to comprehend because I think sex plays an important part in relationships for a lot of people. And it's good to see it in a book.
ReplyDeleteI think there's definitely a distinction between the spankee and the reader. Like mentioned above, there's a voyeuristic quality to these scenes that's electrifying to the voyeur.
Sex is great and sex sells, but there is more to life than just that. There are deep and satisfying relationships that are not based on sex, and these can include spanking relationships.
DeleteAnd yes, there is that element of watching.
My thoughts and wants...exactly... hope it comes my way soon!
ReplyDeletehouston_switch
This passage struck me when I was reading and brought a lump in my throat and reading it again brought tears. It is so raw and vulnerable that need for intimacy and connection. D not believe that a spanking most always be of sexual nature. However there is a uncomfortable as or maybe the build up of anticipation to any spanking scene.
ReplyDeleteSassyTwatter
I just finished it! Oh. my. goodness! Wow! Ok, Let me see if I can come up with some better words to articulate my thoughts. I LOVED IT! I was a little nervous when she met Hannah. I could see where it was going. But it was so tastefully done, I was able to enjoy it without overthinking. I am so upset that she did not tell her Oni about that horrible guy. What a frickin' jerk! I felt so bad for her, seeing what she really wanted, only to be demoralized and humiliated. I loved her relationship with her advisor / Oni. I loved the sister concept. Ana, I love your writing style. I have never been a huge fan of first person, but I cannot picture this story any other way. I loved it.
ReplyDelete